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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
[ Edited ]
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anyone
Intern
Posts: 9
Registered: 11-07-2009

Message 71 of 107

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By the way, solar hot water capacity added worldwide (2006): China: 80.2 % USA: 0.5 % www.ren21.net/pdf/RE2007_Global_Status_Report.pdf
By the way, with the $180 billion spent on AIG to save Wall Streets bonuses, one could have financed 600 Oerlikon thinfilm photovoltaic factories, which produce 96 GW per year. So in only 4 years these photovoltaic factories have produced more capacity than all the coal power capacity in the US combined. http://www.oerlikon.com/ecomaXL/index.php?site=SOLAR_EN_press_releases_detail&udtx_id=3277
And these photovoltaic modules can easily be placed on existing roofs: 117,000 km2 of the US is built. If only 10% of that area has roof area, that leads to a maximum solar lux of 11,700 GW or 1,170 GW at only 10% efficiency (the Hoover dam has 2 GW). http://spatialnews.geocomm.com/dailynews/2004/jun/16/news5.html
By the way, the photovoltaic factories in Germany pay more taxes than what they indirectly receive in feed-in tariffs - not to mention that they reduced the German (costly) unemployment rate: http://lohnsteuer-kompakt.de/redaktion/steuereinnahmen-der-solarindustrie-ist-hoeher-als-die-solarfoerderung/
By the way, the German wind power industry not only generated 90'000 sustainable, tax-paying jobs and Germany exports 83% of its wind-turbines, wind power actually does lower electricity prices in Germany (the consumers pay less for the feed in tariffs than what wind power lowers electricity prices): http://www.wind-energie.de/en/news/article/wind-energy-made-in-germany-is-an-export-hit/166/ http://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/art271,2147183 By the way, even though Denmark has a higher GDP per capita than the US, is a net electricity exporter and has no hydro and no nuclear power and it produces 45% less CO2 per capita than the US does:
Denmark: (20% wind power, 0% nuclear power and 0% hydro power): and 10.94 t of CO2/capita and $67,387 GDP/capita http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/eedrb/data/BE-npsh.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
USA: and 19.95 t of CO2/capita and $47,103 GDP/capita http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/eedrb/data/US-enemc.html
By the way, South Dakota alone has enough wind to power half the US with wind energy alone: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/05/14/sdwind/ And interconnected windfarms provide baseload and reduce peak generation: http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/aj07_jamc.pdf
By the way, transmitting electricity is order of magnitudes cheaper than saving Wall Street bonuses: HVDC can transmit power from coast to coast with losses of only 3% per 1000 km at costs of €70/kW per 1000 km: http://www.iset.uni-kassel.de/abt/w3-w/projekte/LowCostEuropElSup_revised_for_AKE_2006.pdf
China is already transmitting electricity from its enter to the coast with efficient HVDC transmission lines and currently building more: http://www.abb.com/cawp/GAD02181/C1256D71001E0037C1256834003AF40D.aspx http://tdworld.com/overhead_transmission/siemens-hvdc-transmission-china/ And so is Brazil: http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp202/06c9cd09d993758cc1257601003db274.aspx

By the way, the first transcontinental rail-road across America was completed 1869 even before the Battle of the Little Bighorn and certainly without the tools, machines and roads available today and the US population and work-force was almost 10 times smaller than it is today: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A05E6D9103EEE34BC4E51DFB266838A669FDE By the way, there are still more renewable power options such as geothermal, biomass, small hydro, wave, tidal and there are of course thousands of efficiency measures already available today. http://www.ren21.net/pdf/RE_GSR_2009_Update.pdf By the way, all these options create sustainable, tax-paying jobs and construction jobs cannot be exported. Message Edited by anyone on 11-07-2009 01:55 PM
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11-07-2009 07:12 AM
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
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duckling hummingbird
Intern
Posts: 23
Registered: 10-22-2009

Message 74 of 107

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what a bunch a shite,,, this seems to be a mass mutual self appreciation destruction site based on selling i e whoring oneself for the explicit , desire and exploitation of the destruction of our home, not one of you mentions giving anything up, algol is a pig to this day, exploiting our self destruction, obama is in the same camp, this whole website and show are the exact same thing, it s like ya all enjoy making fun of a mass human suicide, ya all nuts, not to mention egotistical , and it s not like ya really attractive anyway, as soon as i cn move my work to a non phoney proliferation site i will, jon ya know why i never gave you pot for free, you freakin weasel, now ya know...you re like the mirror image of algol i e al gore ya don t deserve capital letters, PHONIES, USE YOUR DEODORANTS...LOVE HUMMINGBIRD YA KNOW DUCKY FROM THE NINTH CIRCLE
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11-07-2009 02:54 PM
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
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oraklet
Intern
Posts: 2
Registered: 11-06-2009

Message 76 of 107

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Think about THIS :
You all more or less
discuss the thing this country or person said or can do in the
future but instead it about what I /you can do now not in the future
fore instance take your bicycle or public transportation instead of
your own car and if you have to take your own car commute with others
and fill up the car , change all your light bulbs to low energy bulbs
etc.
Mount a solar panel on the
roof of your house to make electricity or too heat your house or the
hot water etc.
It´s all about what etch of us can do now not in the further PUT YOUR AKTIENS WHERE
YOUR MOUTH IS ;-) Jens Olsen Denmark
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11-08-2009 07:06 AM
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
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ericrazar
Intern
Posts: 1
Registered: 11-08-2009

Message 77 of 107

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while nuclear energy has some waste products that need to be stored. It is far less an issue then the common alternatives of coal for example. At least you bottle up the wastes not release them to the air which also later settles out and lands in the water too. burn coal you get CO2 = global warming burn coal you get radio active gasses released into the air amongst other things. you dont believe it? go check what the USGS has to say. http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/1997/fs163-97/ Some trace elements in coal are naturally radioactive. These radioactive elements include uranium (U), thorium (Th), and their numerous decay products, including radium (Ra) and radon (Rn). Although these elements are less chemically toxic than other coal constituents such as arsenic, selenium, or mercury, questions have been raised concerning possible risk from radiation. Now tell me, would you rather have the waste bottled up or in the air we breath. The French get it. They make most of there electricity from nuclear power and they are selling a boatload of nuclear power plants to china so they wont have to burn coal too. We need to understand that we need nuclear as a stop gap measure while we look to build more wind and solar arrays to at least power our homes.
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11-08-2009 07:21 AM
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
[ Edited ]
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anyone
Intern
Posts: 9
Registered: 11-07-2009

Message 78 of 107

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Actually new nuclear is too expensive, compared to renewable and efficiency options.
Wind power costs $1,460 per kW according to the Department of Energy: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/41435.pdf While new nuclear has reached $10,800 per kilowatt of power capacity: http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/665644 And wind power doesn't require any water, doesn't require any foreign uranium and doesn't require any ultimate repositories and doesn't have huge decommissioning costs: http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=55119 (The US actually imports over 90% of its uranium-needs. The US only produces 2.1% of the current world's uranium consumption: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf23.html On the other hand, the US consumes over 30% of the worlds uranium: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Nuclear_generation_drops_in_2007-0906085.html. And the total uranium mining is currently only covering about 2/3 of the world's uranium demand, which is 67,000 tonnes per year. http://www.fraw.org.uk/mobbsey/papers/oies_article.html )
And France actually gave free government loans to build expensive nuclear power plants (Anything works with free loans. It is basically like saying: "To live in that house is very cheap - except for the mortgage"). And almost 90% of the French energy consumption is not provided by nuclear power according to the International Atomic Energy Agency: French energy consumption: 54'785.84 kWh/capita http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/eedrb/data/FR-encc.html French electricity consumption: 7'366.00 kWh/capita http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/eedrb/data/FR-elcc.html French nuclear electricity consumption: 5'745 kWh/capita (78% nuclear power): http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/eedrb/data/FR-elpn.html
To spend a Dollar on efficiency and renewable energy is much more effective and much faster in reducing CO2-emissions than spending that same Dollar on nuclear: http://www.newsweek.com/id/137501 Missing the Market Meltdown Renewable energy is attracting Wall Street but nuclear power isn't. Why? Simple economics.
By Amory B. Lovins | NEWSWEEK From the magazine issue dated May 26, 2008
Capitalists have already scuttled Patrick Moore's claimed nuclear revival. New U.S. subsidies of about $13 billion per plant (roughly a plant's capital cost) haven't lured Wall Street to invest. Instead, the decentralized competitors to nuclear power that Moore derides are making more global electricity than nuclear plants are, and are growing 20 to 40 times faster.
In 2007, decentralized renewables worldwide attracted $71 billion in private capital. Nuclear got zero. Why? Economics. The nuclear construction costs that Moore omits are astronomical and soaring; low fuel costs will soon rise two-to fivefold. "Negawatts"—saved electricity—cost five to 10 times less and are getting cheaper. So are most renewables. Negawatts and "micro-power"— renewables other than big hydro, and cogenerating electricity together with useful heat—are also at or near customers, avoiding grid costs, losses and failures (which cause 98 to 99 percent of blackouts).
The unreliability of renewable energy is a myth, while the unreliability of nuclear energy is real. Of all U.S. nuclear plants built, 21 percent were abandoned as lemons; 27 percent have failed for a year or more at least once. Even successful eactors must close for refueling every 17 months for 39 days. And when shut by grid failure, they can't quickly restart. Wind farms don't do that.
Variable but forecastable renewables (wind and solar cells) are very reliable when integrated with each other, existing supplies and demand. For example, three German states were more than 30 percent wind-powered in 2007—and more than 100 percent in some months. Mostly renewable power generally needs less backup than utilities already bought to combat big coal and nuclear plants' intermittence.
Micropower delivers a sixth of total global electricity, a third of all new electricity and from a sixth to more than half of all electricity in 12 industrial countries (in the United States it's only 6 percent). In 2006, the global net capacity added by nuclear power was only 83 percent of that added by solar cells, 10 percent that of wind power and 3 percent that of micropower. China's distributed renewables grew to seven times its nuclear capacity and grew seven times faster. In 2007, the United States, China and Spain each added more wind capacity than the world added nuclear capacity. Wind power added 30 percent of new U.S. and 40 percent of EU capacity, because it's two to three times cheaper than new nuclear power. Which part of this doesn't Moore understand?
The punch line: nuclear expansion buys two to 10 times less climate protection per dollar, far slower than its winning competitors. Spending a dollar on new nuclear power rather than on negawatts thus has a worse climate effect than spending that dollar on new coal power. Attention, Dr. Moore: you're making climate change worse.
And China is currently at less than 2% nuclear power (electricity only) and is building way more renewables than nuclear:
http://www.ren21.net/pdf/RE_GSR_2009_Update.pdf (And of course: China is also building more renewables than the US. But then again, China also doesn't have to spend all its tax-dollars on bankers and wars and can therefore spend it on reducing the unemployment rate sustainably in China.) Message Edited by anyone on 11-08-2009 09:29 AM
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11-08-2009 09:01 AM
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Re: * 11/4/09 -- Al Gore *
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The Eloquent Baby
Headline Producer
Posts: 1279
Registered: 10-27-2008

Message 80 of 107

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Al Gore mentioned that man has all the tools he needs to make change environmentally. Man has all the tools he needs for psychological healing as well. I have made them work for me. He/She who heals is right. Neurosis does not have to be a permanent state. It is possible to heal emotional pain, to bring an organism back to clarity.
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11-08-2009 11:52 AM
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