Crypt....I figured this would be a rough topic....one chart is Victims, the other stats are related to people IN PRISON....

incarceration rates are even higher for some groups. One in 36 Hispanic adults is behind bars, based on Justice Department figures for 2006. One in 15 black adults is, too, as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34.

The report, from the Pew Center on the States, also found that only one in 355 white women between the ages of 35 and 39 are behind bars but that one in 100 black women are.

AND I did not say BLACK....I said someone WITH a criminal record....these are the statistics of PEOPLE CONVICTED.... it just SHOWS that more Black people are convicted of violent crimes....this INCLUDES Black on Black...which is VERY high....

I am NOT saying it is a preliminary prejudice.... 

Do you realize that charts shows minorities are VICTIMS more often??? What does THAT say?

It SUPPORTS the fact that the actions are NOT Black on White or White on Black it means they don't care WHO they (criminals) beat up....except that they do it MORE to their own....Minority criminals hurt other minorities more than they do non-minorities...

What is that saying about our culture... 

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keliwar wrote:

 

 

 

Serious violent victimization rates by race, 1973-2005

Serious violent crimes included are homicide, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Adjusted rate per 1,000 persons age 12+

Year	White	Black
1973	20.0	37.3
1974	20.9	37.3

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Sorry about the terrible formating. But you can see BOTH charts are about the frequency of VICTIMS.

Blacks INVARIABLY are basically involved in 2 times the number of VIOLENT crimes as Whites....so a criminal record would definitely affect how I felt about an applicant...specially if it was theft or violence...  would you hire a child care worker that was convicted of molestation or statutory rape?  or Hire someone to handle your financials that was convicted of embezzlement?

I wouldn't use the word "invariably" - crime rates of blacks have varied and that could be misconstrued to mean you think ALL black americans are involved in violent crimes.

AND I did not say BLACK....I said someone WITH a criminal record....these are the statistics of PEOPLE CONVICTED.... it just SHOWS that more Black people are convicted of violent crimes....this INCLUDES Black on Black...which is VERY high....

Wait, so are you then saying black people are hired less because they have criminal records, and therefore it is a bias against convicts not blacks?

That is just too odd, because (as you mentioned) men commit more than 70% of violent crime, and yet they are hired more and even paid more than women.

Crypt...I said that MY PERSONAL bias would be against someone with a record indicating that they would not be suitable  (by what they were convicted for)

An example is that you would NOT want a VIOLENT type of person to be in a position of customer service that frequently gets heated...

or someone dealing with your cash in your business who has been convicted of embezzlement....or just plain theft....if the crime were NOT counter to the job then I don't care...I have hired Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, females, and OH NO....White people....

I have been involved in the programs where the State pays your business to hire a convict...AND BEEN BURNED....when they steal from your customers....even just loose money sitting in their vehicle...and they were caught....but that doesn't bring back the customer confidence of the one it was stolen from...or the gossip that follows...

I also used to work for the CA prison system as a CO....so I saw these people first hand...on the other side of the wall... 

I have not gotten into gender bias....but from my own experience...even in my Auto repair business it is difficult to hire a female...not that I think they are LESS qualified....there are several issues that arise.....

First...it is difficult enough to keep the male employees busy without them feeling the need to assist or DO the other persons Job....

Then harassment issues become more of an issue....in a primarily male field....

Then...for all you married folks...you have the female spouse who thinks you hired the female for alternate reasons then their work performance....

but I am curious if that statistic would hold true in a primarily female type of work...(not trying to sterio type) for example a secretary position, or ?...if a male applied would the statistics also hold true.... Just food for thought...that males would be denied quicker...regardless of qualifications

Crypt...I said that MY PERSONAL bias would be against someone with a record indicating that they would not be suitable  (by what they were convicted for)

You said you don't hire people with criminal records, and now you're saying that has no further implication? Why did you bring it up? That really doesn't have anything to do with black people getting hired less.

I'm not even touching the gender bias thing. 

So why did you bring up those crime statistics if they have nothing to do with black people getting hired less?

What point are you making? Because your tangent has become a bit of a labyrinth.

I cannot believe that you think you can get away with pulling such a Palin as to dismiss hard cold numbers that disprove your point, with "there's probably more than meets the eye..."  Not just willful ignorance, but arrogantly willful ignorance.

Then, you plaster victim charts thinking they show how blacks are more criminal, then you  moan about how Mr. I'm-not-a-racist-Keli got screwed by helping ex-criminals.  Bet you took the government incentives if there were any!!!

This kind of willful ignorance, including never posting proof of your ridiculous false claims of what you've said in the past, your slimey innuendo and slander disgust me.  These last posts have been deeply unjust.  Why are you constantly trying to convince us that you didn't say what you said, you didn't infer what you inferred, and aren't an obsessive rump right winger who will continue to call rejected petitions to the court valid hearings, says that Obama scares you to death and then pretends you didn't even after 77 cuts and pastes your own words.  You are Palin's soul mate whether you like her or not.  I'm done with your innuendo.

Crypt....you said"You said you don't hire people with criminal records,"

This is why this becomes so difficult...I NEVER said the ...this is my qoute.... 

Blacks INVARIABLY are basically involved in 2 times the number of VIOLENT crimes as Whites....so a criminal record would definitely affect how I felt about an applicant...specially if it was theft or violence...  would you hire a child care worker that was convicted of molestation or statutory rape?  or Hire someone to handle your financials that was convicted of embezzlement?

Where did you get that I said I would NOT hire someone with a criminal record...especially since I already have? AND he was BLACK....AND wound up BACK in JAIL....unrelated to my business...OR ME...

My words are not just random...I choose them wisely....

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keliwar wrote:

Crypt....you said"You said you don't hire people with criminal records,"

 

This is why this becomes so difficult...I NEVER said the ...this is my qoute.... 

 

 

Blacks INVARIABLY are basically involved in 2 times the number of VIOLENT crimes as Whites....so a criminal record would definitely affect how I felt about an applicant...specially if it was theft or violence...  would you hire a child care worker that was convicted of molestation or statutory rape?  or Hire someone to handle your financials that was convicted of embezzlement?

 

Where did you get that I said I would NOT hire someone with a criminal record...especially since I already have? AND he was BLACK....AND wound up BACK in JAIL....unrelated to my business...OR ME...

 

My words are not just random...I choose them wisely....

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"Crypt...I said that MY PERSONAL bias would be against someone with a record indicating that they would not be suitable  (by what they were convicted for"

Ok, by your OWN description you are BIASED against convicts.

I still don't see what this has to do with black people not getting hired, or the crime rates you want to talk about if you are only talking about YOUR PERSONAL bias.

Are you just rambling for fun? WHAT POINT ARE YOU MAKING?

I have to admit, I feel  Jforgizmo's frustrating feeling that you are making insinuations and then denying what you meant when they fall through. 

This conversation has really unraveled.  It's going to be time to abandon ship soon.

jforgizmo....

Ok....I know I am SOOOOOO outa line for bringing up facts...

You did NOT give the specific reference in your initial statement...so I asked..and you provided .....

To say that I have to agree that there are NOT other factors to consider....well that is your opinion and you are entitled to it....

Since I worked in the Prison system  I saw  first hand the mentality of the people  that were incarcerated...and I  am also entitled to MY opinion...SOME  just got caught up in stupid situations ...while others were JUST STUPID....the point was that if  3 times the number of Blacks are  in prison   perhaps it affects the way that particular group is viewed on the HIRING front...

Whether justified of NOT...it should not make any difference on an individual basis...but I cannot speak for others....

MANY times we don't get all the info...and if YOU think we do you are blind....

Crypt...my insurace won't let me hire people that have a BAD driving record...does that mean I (or they) have bias against bad drivers? or is it good business sense....

If someone wants to do SMOG inspections...but are NOT licensed...should I hire them anyway? then spend 2 years training them?  (since that is the MINIMUM time it would take)

How much business sense does it make to hire someone that has ALREADY shown problems in certain types of situation? Give a Car thief access to a medium sized company....?

Would you hire a KNOWN rapist to run your secretary pool, or s a late night personal assistant to YOU....

What insinuations have I made....if YOU believe that ALL the information was given...more power to you....if you are a skeptic and KNOW that MANY studies are biased toward the results the person or group is looking for then that is MY stance...

Even in my previous comments I qualified them with the FACT that they were designed to put the facts in the worst possible light....but they are still facts...